Kevin Patrick Mostyn Family - Person Sheet
Kevin Patrick Mostyn Family - Person Sheet
NameTudur AP RHYS SAIS, 27G Grandfather
FatherRhys Sais AP EDNYFED (<1030-1073)
MotherEfa VCH GRUFFYDD
Web Notes notes for Tudur AP RHYS SAIS
The sons of Rhys Sais, great greatgrandson of Tudur Trefor, were sufficiently powerful, in 1079, to attack Gwrgeneu, the son of Seisyltt, who had set himself up as king of Powys, and slew him. Tudur, presumably the eldest of these sons, is recorded in the Domesday Survey of 1086 as paying a quit rent of 4l. 5s. annually for Nanheudwy to Earl Roger of Shrewsbury; but he had then lost Whittington, a lordship which had belonged to his father, Rhys Sais.
Cynfrig ap Rhiwallon, a descendant of Dingad, another son of Tudur Trefor, held about the time of the Norman Conquest a large portion of the western part of Maelor Gymraeg, where Tudur ap Rhys Sais is said to have held land which would seem to have been retained by a descendant, Ednyfed Gam, at the beginning of the 14th century.
Tudur, assumed to have been the eldest son of Rhys Sais, inherited Whittington (Drewen), Nanheudwy, and very probably lands about Hanmer, where, in the 14th century, his descendants held estates. But he lost the lordship of Whittington to the Normans. Nanheudwy he succeeded in retaining as a vassal of the earl of Shrewsbury, paying therefor, in 1086, a chief rent of £4 and 5 shillings annually, to Roger the Earl. (1) This rent presumably represented the payments in kind formerly due to the princes. It is supposed that Tudur was born close to 1060, and in 1079 (1080), with his brothers, appears to have attacked and slain Gwrgeneu, Prince of Powys, his kinsman. (2)
In 1098, Robert de Bellême succeeded to the earldom of Shrewsbury. In 1101 Robert and his brother Arnulf revolted against King Henry I of England, summoning to their aid their Welsh vassals, among whom they seem to have enjoyed a certain popularity. Of these were Cadwgan, Iorwerth, and Maredydd, the sons of Bleddyn, late Prince of Powys, and also, we may assume, Tudur, lord of Nanheudwy, who, it is believed, was yet living. It is said that the earls made great promises, and "gladdened the country with liberty." Some successes were achieved. William Pantulf, who was with the king, then "opened negotiations with Iorwerth with a view to detaching the Welsh from the Norman rebels. The result of the dealings between William and Iorwerth was that Henry promised Iorwerth, if he would come over to his side . . . Powys, Ceredigion, half of Dyfed, Ystrad Towi, Cidweli, and Gower, without homage and without tribute." Iorwerth accepted these terms without consulting his brothers or the other chieftains, and before the end of the year Robert was forced to surrender. Iorwerth received no other reward for his treachery than a long imprisonment, and the king took the earldom into his own hands and governed it himself. It does not appear that de Bellême's other vassals listened to Henry's proposals; and it may have been in this way that Tudur forfeited his lordship of Nanheudwy, which was lost close to this date. We find Tudur's descendants, however, holding by inheritance certain vills, for instance, Pergwern, within the lordship, which Tudur himself, in any case, in accord with the Norman policy of that day, would be permitted to retain for the support of his family and dependents. Of his lordship, with its emoluments and feudal power over the tenantry, he would be deprived.
Tudur is stated to have espoused Sioned, daughter of a certain Rhys Fychan (not satisfactorily identified), by whom he had issue: Goronwy (=Wrenoc), dead before 1156, whose sons recovered Whittington; Bleddyn, Cuhelyn, ancestor to families once living near Llangollen, and Iorwerth.
(1) Domesday. Prof. Lloyd of Bangor, Mr. Tait (Historical Atlas of Modern Europe, ed. R. L. Poole, introd. to map 17), the late Mr. A. N. Palmer of Wrexham, and other competent authorities, object to Eyton's identification of the finem terrae Walensis of Domesday with Maelor Saesneg, and agree that this entry refers to Nanheudwy, not otherwise accounted for in the Norman Survey (see A History of Wales, by John E. Lloyd, M.A., ii., p. 389, and n. 106).
(2) The definite statement in The History of Powys Fadog, i., p. 75, that in 1079 Gwrgeneu was "slain by Tudor, Elidur, and Iddon, the sons of Rhys Sais, lord of Chirk. . . and Nanheudwy," is somewhat misleading. Brut y Tywysogion, under 1079 says: "and then, a year after that [year] the battle of Carn mountain took place, when were slain Trahaiarn son of Caradug, the son of Gruffudd, grandson of Iago, and with him the Scots [Irish Scotti], his auxiliaries (? in 1080). And Gurgeneu, son of Seisyll, was treacherously killed by the sons of Rhys Sais." The names of the sons of Rhys are not mentioned.
(3) The Welsh People, Rhys and Brynmor-Jones, 4th ed., pp. [unreadable].
Recorded in the Domesday Survey of 1086 as paying a quit rent of 4l. 5s. annually for Nanheudwy to Earl Roger of Shrewsbury; but he had then lost Whittington, a lordship which had belonged to his father, Rhys Sais.
Cynfrig ap Rhiwallon, a descendant of Dingad, another son of Tudur Trefor, held about the time of the Norman Conquest a large portion of the western part of Maelor Gymraeg, where Tudur ap Rhys Sais is said to have held land which would seem to have been retained by a descendant, Ednyfed Gam, at the beginning of the 14th century.
Tudur, assumed to have been the eldest son of Rhys Sais, inherited Whittington (Drewen), Nanheudwy, and very probably lands about Hanmer, where, in the 14th century, his descendants held estates. But he lost the lordship of Whittington to the Normans. Nanheudwy he succeeded in retaining as a vassal of the earl of Shrewsbury, paying therefor, in 1086, a chief rent of £4 and 5 shillings annually, to Roger the Earl. (1) This rent presumably represented the payments in kind formerly due to the princes. It is supposed that Tudur was born close to 1060, and in 1079 (1080), with his brothers, appears to have attacked and slain Gwrgeneu, Prince of Powys, his kinsman. (2)
In 1098, Robert de Bellême succeeded to the earldom of Shrewsbury. In 1101 Robert and his brother Arnulf revolted against King Henry I of England, summoning to their aid their Welsh vassals, among whom they seem to have enjoyed a certain popularity. Of these were Cadwgan, Iorwerth, and Maredydd, the sons of Bleddyn, late Prince of Powys, and also, we may assume, Tudur, lord of Nanheudwy, who, it is believed, was yet living. It is said that the earls made great promises, and "gladdened the country with liberty." Some successes were achieved. William Pantulf, who was with the king, then "opened negotiations with Iorwerth with a view to detaching the Welsh from the Norman rebels. The result of the dealings between William and Iorwerth was that Henry promised Iorwerth, if he would come over to his side . . . Powys, Ceredigion, half of Dyfed, Ystrad Towi, Cidweli, and Gower, without homage and without tribute." Iorwerth accepted these terms without consulting his brothers or the other chieftains, and before the end of the year Robert was forced to surrender. Iorwerth received no other reward for his treachery than a long imprisonment, and the king took the earldom into his own hands and governed it himself. It does not appear that de Bellême's other vassals listened to Henry's proposals; and it may have been in this way that Tudur forfeited his lordship of Nanheudwy, which was lost close to this date. We find Tudur's descendants, however, holding by inheritance certain vills, for instance, Pergwern, within the lordship, which Tudur himself, in any case, in accord with the Norman policy of that day, would be permitted to retain for the support of his family and dependents. Of his lordship, with its emoluments and feudal power over the tenantry, he would be deprived.
Tudur is stated to have espoused Sioned, daughter of a certain Rhys Fychan (not satisfactorily identified), by whom he had issue: Goronwy (=Wrenoc), dead before 1156, whose sons recovered Whittington; Bleddyn, Cuhelyn, ancestor to families once living near Llangollen, and Iorwerth.
(1) Domesday. Prof. Lloyd of Bangor, Mr. Tait (Historical Atlas of Modern Europe, ed. R. L. Poole, introd. to map 17), the late Mr. A. N. Palmer of Wrexham, and other competent authorities, object to Eyton's identification of the finem terrae Walensis of Domesday with Maelor Saesneg, and agree that this entry refers to Nanheudwy, not otherwise accounted for in the Norman Survey (see A History of Wales, by John E. Lloyd, M.A., ii., p. 389, and n. 106).
(2) The definite statement in The History of Powys Fadog, i., p. 75, that in 1079 Gwrgeneu was "slain by Tudor, Elidur, and Iddon, the sons of Rhys Sais, lord of Chirk. . . and Nanheudwy," is somewhat misleading. Brut y Tywysogion, under 1079 says: "and then, a year after that [year] the battle of Carn mountain took place, when were slain Trahaiarn son of Caradug, the son of Gruffudd, grandson of Iago, and with him the Scots [Irish Scotti], his auxiliaries (? in 1080). And Gurgeneu, son of Seisyll, was treacherously killed by the sons of Rhys Sais." The names of the sons of Rhys are not mentioned.
(3) The Welsh People, Rhys and Brynmor-Jones, 4th ed., pp. [unreadable].
Recorded in the Domesday Survey of 1086 as paying a quit rent of 4l. 5s. annually for Nanheudwy to Earl Roger of Shrewsbury; but he had then lost Whittington, a lordship which had belonged to his father, Rhys Sais.